Just another college girl fightin' the patriarchy

When dealing with porn viewing, the general consensus seems to be that compartmentalization is a good thing. That always seemed strange to me, that the ability to compartmentalize people would be viewed as a good thing. “Don’t worry, I can separate fantasy from reality.” “Don’t worry I can separate porn women from real women.” So I did a bit of research into this compartmentalization thing. As someone on Nine Deuce’s blog once said:

“It’s A-OK to segregate some women into a Fuck Objects To Be Used & Abused compartment of the brain because why exactly? Compartmentalization is a learned skill, it’s the product of a society that accords full human status to a percentage of members (men), who then get to choose to what degree any given member of the second, lesser-human class (women) gets to be human.

It cracks me up whenever men proudly proclaim the ability to “compartmentalize”, completely oblivious that they’re announcing their status as a member of the dominant, fully human class that gets to decide whether or not women get to be human, and to what extent. Hey, yeah, good for you, buddy. Just keep on informing the world that you revel in your male superiority. It serves as a warning signal for those of us enlightened enough to know better that Here Thar Be Misogynists.

In fact, I would argue that any person capable of “compartmentalization” is borderline sociopathic and should be avoided at all costs. Compartmentalizing people is how genocide happens, it’s how war is justified, it’s how the rich get away with marginalizing the poor – it’s at the root of every rationalization for one group being more human/deserving than another.”

My research into this turned up the following. When it comes to psychology, here are the main things I came up with:

“Compartmentalization is a state of dissociation.”

Like people do when they experience something horrific or terrifying, so that they can continue to function on a basic level. This eliminates problematic things such as emotions or the ability to feel things (like empathy). Indeed, one of the top hits for psychology is compartmentalization associated with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), so that people can separate horrifying things in their brains from other aspects of thought so they are able to function. This means an admission of compartmentalization with porn is the admission of a need to separate horrifying, disgusting, violent things away in order to get pleasure from it. Otherwise you’d realize it was a terrible, misogynistic thing to exist.

… people with a borderline level of organization… have to compartmentalize people into “all good” and “all bad”, on the principle that ‘compartmentalizing experiences… prevents conflict stemming from the incompatibility of the two polarized aspects of self or other’. Often, ‘when the individual is confronted with the contradictions in behavior, thought, or affect, he/she regards the differences with bland denial or indifference.

All good, versus all bad. i.e. the madonnas and the whores. The women you fuck and the women you “respect.” And I believe the polarized aspects referred to here are the feelings of wanting to see women as fully human versus the feelings of being aroused by hating women. Therefore, compartmentalization is necessary so that these two polar opposites (hating women or seeing women as fully human) can coexist for a happy porn viewing experience. I believe this would be more accurate if at the end of denial and indifference they also added a rage against women and especially feminists. That denial/indifference? How many times have you heard “Oh who cares, it’s just PORN mind your own business!” With no acknowledgement of the arguments made. Or the “Well a lot of guys may like act A, but I wouldn’t ever like that, stop lumping us together!” Hmmm….

the ‘simplicity…[of] splitting everything into neat compartments of “good” and “bad” does several things for us, all of which make us feel better. First, it helps us feel part of a “good” group – that’s comforting. Second, we can relax our usual standards of correct behaviour for a bit…

They make you feel better, but they don’t actually make doing it any better. This makes a lot of sense. When you compartmentalize yourself into a good group, it’s easier to justify your use. “Well I’m not the one raping/beating/hurting her, so I’m still a good guy.” “There’s other porn that’s worse than what I use, so I’m still OK.” And that second point is a good one. Compartmentalization allows lax standards for empathy and respect. That’s a very important one. It’s necessary to remove yourself from the regular part of your brain where women are human to a place where women do exist solely for the purpose of satisfying any and every violent degrading demand.

And the best for last:

This process is called Compartmentalization– sectioning off parts of the intellect so that certain subjects, like religion, can be protected from rational, critical thinking.

Because if the user didn’t compartmentalize it away from rational thought, hide it in a special place in his brain where critical thinking couldn’t touch it, there’s no way he could justify his enjoyment of something clearly painful, degrading, and humiliating. He couldn’t justify enjoying something where this is a high likelihood that at least sometimes the woman is really being raped, is a trafficked woman. So because it feels good, it gets put away someplace where those thoughts can’t apply to it. It would not be possible to enjoy porn as it exists today were it not for the “ability” to place it behind special logic-proof walls.

Compartmentalization does work. It causes the user to feel entitled to label women as human or not, real people or things to fuck, etc… Only a person in a position of entitlement could experience this type of god complex, deciding who is and isn’t human, who does and doesn’t deserve abuse based on whether she turns him on. What puts a woman in one category? Once she loses her virginity she’s no longer human? If she’s hot? If she wears a certain type of underwear? This means some people actually begin to feel some woman (all of whom are thinking, breathing, feeling, human beings) deserve to be raped, deserve to be beaten, tortured, murdered, etc… Because this user has learned to compartmentalize. When something revolting happens to a woman, she can be compartmentalized away as a “disgusting pig” or a deserving “slut” because porn has taught him that some women deserve this treatment. Some women are born for this, to be fucked brutally, to be raped.

If this doesn’t happen, then explain why so many serial killers target prostituted women. Because to men they are different than other women, compartmentalized into things versus women. He compartmentalizes them as fuckdolls, and because they are not human to him, it means he is entitled to do anything he can to get his sexual fix, even if that involves killing her. You can’t rape or murder someone if they aren’t human.

When the woman he’s with is in pain to satisfy his need for anal sex or something else he saw in porn, he can compartmentalize it away as different from his own pain. Compartmentalize her away as less than human, her pain is a lesser pain than a pain he’d experience. If this isn’t true then why do men find it acceptable when a woman gags on his penis, why do they find it sexy if a woman is in pain from anal penetration while at the same time insisting it’s a completely different thing (too painful) for her to find a way to do the same to him?

This is how genocide happens. Jews were compartmentalized as less than human so they could be tortured and killed (yes, yes Godwin’s law, but it actually is relevant here so eff off with the straw man), black people in America were compartmentalized as less than human so they could be enslaved. Women are compartmentalized as less than human to be sex toys for men.

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Comments on: "Compartmentalizing women means you’re a sociopath" (63)

  1. PTSD actually stands for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, not Shock 😛

    “There’s other porn that’s worse than what I use, so I’m still OK.” And that second point is a good one. Compartmentalization allows lax standards for empathy and respect. That’s a very important one. It’s necessary to remove yourself from the regular part of your brain where women are human to a place where women do exist solely for the purpose of satisfying any and every violent degrading demand.

    I believe this an excellent point. In the pay-per-rapists’ mind it is often that their porn isn’t misogynist they only watch female friendly/feminist/lesbian/amateur variety so it can’t be bad. It elevates them to the level of special snowflake above all the rest.

    If this doesn’t happen, then explain why so many serial killers target prostituted women.

    Ted Bundy loved violent pornography, and this was in the days before the internet. Now you don’t even have to look for pornography to find snuff, all you have to do is look hard enough for gore. No coincidence that most of the “gore” photos online are of murdered womyn and girls.

    When the woman he’s with is in pain to satisfy his need for anal sex or something else he saw in porn, he can compartmentalize it away as different from his own pain. Compartmentalize her away as less than human, her pain is a lesser pain than a pain he’d experience.

    And he can practice on the fuckedtoys that one may buy increasing this gap even more.

    black people in America were compartmentalized as less than human so they could be enslaved.

    And Aboriginal Australians were compartmentalised so that they could be genocided and “bred out”.

    The ability to compartmentalise can suck my flaps.

  2. I should really read into the Aboriginal issue with both Australia and Canada, since it gets mentioned a lot on other blogs. It seems to be a much bigger problem when it comes to sexism by race than any similar issue here in the states is.

    P.S. “suck my flaps.” I love this! I may have to start using it in real life. I’ve always wondered what the equivalent to suck my balls would be, but none of them quite sounded right…

    • The fucked up thing is here that Australian Aboriginal womyn didn’t get the vote in my state until … nearly around the 1970’s mark? We had the “White Australia” immigration policy which is pretty self explanatory – I honestly think it was as racist and fucked up here as South Africa, but it wasn’t spoken about or brought into the mainstream media attention, well, ever (this is a very loose understanding, so if anyone reads this and knows better/different, I’d love to know.)

      Please do! I love suck my flaps, suck my high balls (ovaries), tongue my tubes… that’s all i’ve got so far, but fuck man, they are gnarly.

  3. Just want to say, this is a brilliant piece of analysis.

  4. yes, compartmentalization is fucked up. men do this all the time in war for example, they can rape and murder women, children and even babies during the day, then sit down for a meal at night as if it never happened. men do this in “business” too. “its just business” is the battle cry of someone who is about to fuck someone else over.

    i dont know why the wartime example is thought of as some kind of bastardization of the ability to dissociate, of mens ability to compartmentalize, instead of a perfect example of this ability. because thats what it is. the ability to sit down to a nice meal with someone elses viscera all over them is almost uniquely male. women of course do all kinds of things with their own viscera all over themselves. rmott talks about prostituted women leaving literally their “blood and guts” behind in the posh hotel rooms men purchase to use them in.

    and YES to putting all of this into a logic-proof box. excellent. thats exactly what it is. mackinnon notes how men tend to believe that anything that gives them boners is 1) good; and 2) not real. so we have male psychologists/analysts making shit up, like “rape fantasies” for example, when they hear female patients reporting histories of sexual abuse. same goes for porn. it gives them boners, so its both good, and not real, at the same time.

    how can something thats “not real” have any qualities at all, either good OR bad? seriously. when clearly of course, these abuses of women and children ARE real, and they are VERY, VERY BAD.

  5. “men tend to believe that anything that gives them boners is 1) good; and 2) not real.”

    There’s an enormous hypocrisy/double standard in that whenever they see something “positive” (like an orgasm, moaning, etc…) it’s obviously real, she obviously just loves her job. But whenever it’s something negative (like rape “fantasies”) they’re the first ones to quickly jump to it’s defense claiming it’s fake, acting, just fantasy, etc…

  6. yes, they definitely do that too, and mackinnon talks about that as well. see my “moron reality” post for more on that.

    but she also talks about specifically about male doctors hearing womens stories of sexual atrocities committed against women by men, and the doctors very specific reaction to hearing this is that it gives them boners. they are getting boners, at hearing female patients self-report histories of sexual abuse, by men. its horrifying to think about, it really is. it could easily be involuntary too, thats not the point. the point is what they do with this “information.”

    because it gives them boners, which are good (for them) they automatically think that what they are hearing is GOOD, and theorize something positive about it, as if it represents some kind of developmental stage for the woman for example, where she is trying to realize her authentic sexuality or something. because they are men, and only mens POV is relevant, anything that is arousing for him, must also be arousing for her. and sex is good!!111!11!

    the male doctors also didnt think any of what they were hearing was real. that it was a fantasy on her part. and they commenced to theorize extensively on this. but in reality, it was a fantasy on their part. the fantasy was that the stories about sexual abuse werent real, when in fact they were. the fact that they probably fantasize about doing these things to women themselves, probably helped them along here, again going on their own POV alone, and not considering womens POV at all. or, they assumed that since they fantasized about DOING IT, that women probably also fantasize about HAVING IT DONE TO THEM.

    this is the history of psychiatry, and psychology, and of psychoanalysis, as we know it.

    there are parallels to be drawn here, between the way male doctors process female patients histories of sexual abuse, and the way men deal with and process porn.

    • A Shropshire Lad said:

      “the male doctors also didnt think any of what they were hearing was real. that it was a fantasy on her part”

      What about the possibility that the doctor was a nice guy and he seriously couldn’t imagine a man behaving that horribly to a woman? Or why a woman wouldn’t dump such a sleazebag at once?

      I know, then he has a very limited perspective and was a bad psychiatrist etc., but you have to be open for the possibility that his mother was a feminist who had thaught him that women are always right and that any decent woman would never let themselves be abused like that.

      He might pop a boner for the sake of being nothing more than a human ape, i.e. in the same way you want to kill your opponent (e.g. the guy who raped your wife) with your bare hands, but realize that that is not a viable option in a civilized society.

  7. see my “psychotherapy. its porn-tastic!” post for more on that. it includes a scan of mackinnons article “sex lies and psychotherapy.”

  8. Jeez sorry for the triple comment. But I also wanted to add that Freud for example initially believed his patients, and only later decided they were lying. Or was it the other way around? I can’t remember. Anyway, the point is that there was a willful decision made on the part of the profession as a whole to deny the truth of what was happening, and to DECIDE that the women were making it up. And that there’s probably a willfulness about men’s DECISION that porn is both good, and “fantastic” at the same time.

    It’s also highly likely that doctors use porn themselves, AND that what they write about when it comes to sexual abuse of women actually functions AS porn, to others who read it. Medical students, others docs and researchers for example. It turns them on. It’s all just fucking horrifying, it really is.

    Thanks for writing about porn. It needs to be discussed, in as many voices and with as many various critiques as possible.

  9. I agree (and ick about the doctors). The continued mantra of libertarian porn use needs to stop. The whole if it gives guys boners it must be a good thing is ridiculous. Does that apply to rape too? Because that obviously gets many guys off.

    The thing that really gets me is that rape is masturbating into someone over dominating/controlling them and degradation. Your everyday porn is getting off on someone else’s humiliation and degradation. Yet the same people will argue continuously for more porn while claiming they’re against rape. Ridiculous.

  10. This is a wonderful analysis. Compartmentalizing is an emotional SURVIVAL technique, not a virtue to be proliferated and glorified.

    Rebecca Whisnant studies the mechanics of moral disengagement with regard to men’s porn use. She’s genius! You should check out her work. I tried to find something about this online, but only got repeatedly sent back to my own blog. HA! Sorry. Enjoy.

  11. Sirf_palot said:

    I was commenting on the anti-porn blog when another user said I should read Elkballet’s post on compartmentalization. The post was well written and does put a new perspective on things. However there are a few things I find trouble accepting. The first being that compartmentalization means I’m a sociopath I think its just nature not to care about total strangers unless one decides to empathize with them. And I think that by choosing not to empathize with a stranger is not the marks of a sociopath, its just human nature nor does it mean I regard other women as “whores” or inhuman, its just that I have no reason to care about them as opposed to by family, friends, or persons/characters I have developed an emotional bond with. Besides, I’m more inclined to see compartmentalization as a sign of mental immaturity, as opposed to sociopathy. I mean, isn’t that what do immature people do, they ignore their own demons/flaws and/or unable face a serious/emotional/personal issue and that is essentially what people who are compartmentalizing are doing. Which is why I don’t agree that compartmnetalizing is as unhealthy as Elkballet makes it. I mean I don’t hate women (I don’t hate my mother, my female relatives, and friends) even though I watch violent porn, frankly I’m not even that happy about it, but I am what I am. Its just that I don’t “care” about people who I have little attachment to and to empathize with them would be very uncomfortable and heartrending (for example, in porn if I think about some of the things that might be true to some extent about the adult entertainment industry, to which I might add, I would never had given a second thought about until I played Crescendo and gotten attached to Yuka who basically encompasses almost all the broken bird tropes & the porn actresses come from abused pasts talking points anti porn people hawk). So in order to cope, I would have to think that I should only feel bad for Yuka because I got to know her in the story and should not feel sorry for other complete strangers (live porn stars whom I do not know) that I only watch on the computer. The same way I could ignore visibly crippled beggars and homeless persons on the street without even feeling a twinge of empathy, because I’ve decided its not worth me feeling bad about them especially when I’m not in a position to feasibly help them.

    Again, I do think Elkballet’s language is quite strong (possibly exaggerated) in this case. And I don’t agree with her points saying that its because we [I] compartmentalize we are saying a that a group of women are whores/not human.

  12. even though I watch violent porn, frankly I’m not even that happy about it, but I am what I am.

    Waaaaah, I can’t help it!!11!!11!!!! I am what I am. I am what I am. No use trying to change. I am what I am. Brain plasticity???? I’ve never heard of that before!

  13. Your html tags are funny. I can’t get them to work properly. Sorry about that!

  14. Sirf_palot said:

    In response to undercover punk, of course there is little motivation for anyone who watches porn to change who they are. For one thing, there is no external forces motivating most people who watch porn to stop. For example factors such as a nagging spouse or significant other or some religious imperative to do so. To compound the problem, porn is viewed as a victimless industry (which I would say can only apply to Hentai videos as its drawn by artists and voiced by seiyuu, some of them quite mainstream in anime also, like Shizuka Itou and Yuko Goto, which MAKES IT AWESOME). Anyways, with all those factors combined, why would anyone have motivation to stop watching porn?

  15. there is little motivation for anyone who watches porn to change who they are

    Dude, you’re confusing *behavior* with an essential (and presumably unchanging) characteristic of the Self. See how that works? If it’s *part of YOU,* then you can’t help it!111!!!1! If, on the other hand, you CHOOSE to tell your body to *behave* in a certain ways (using porn), then you have moral responsibility for your choices. Allow me to repeat myself: the concept of innate sexuality is harmful to women.

    Why do most people refrain from stealing and murdering? Or engaging in other ethically questionable behavior? Fear of punishment (physical or existential)? The promise of reward? Or maybe it’s an internal sense of moral righteousness?

    Having VALUES and BEHAVING in accordance with them is the only way to Live. (And prevent social anarchy.) I don’t think you’re *ready* to confront radical feminist ideology. You are engaging in too much willful cognitive dissonance to follow our sweet flow.

  16. Sirf_palot said:

    Innate sexuality? Don’t really see how hentai had affected my view of women negatively. I’m not a rapist, and I don’t plan to be. In fact, I don’t even think I’ll ever have sex (or find a significant other) so no one has to deal with any “harmful” views/attitudes one may hold and I’m pretty sure this applies to others who are similar to me. You seem to be confusing a persons thoughts/attitudes with what they might or might not do, just because I think a certain way, doesn’t mean that I’ll act it out.

  17. You seem to be confusing a persons thoughts/attitudes with what they might or might not do, just because I think a certain way, doesn’t mean that I’ll act it out.

    The fact that you masturbate to violence against women means that is deep down down, what you desire. You can’t honestly think there’s no hypocrisy in stating that you get off to violence against women but that you really don’t want to hurt women.
    I looked up what fantasy is defined as in a psychological dictionary:

    an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need.

    If you masturbate to violence against women, you are stating to the world you have no problem hurting women to fulfill your sexual fantasy. If you fantasize about hurting women, you are trying to satisfy a “psychological need” to hurt women. But since you were raised enough/have some empathy that you wouldn’t personally want to hurt a woman, you hire someone else to do it for you (in porn). You have no problem with the idea of hurting women to get your sexual fix. By claiming that you wouldn’t do it in real life (since you do it by proxy through porn) you are able to compartmentalize/remove your guilt. Your claims of it being “victimless” (hahahahaha) because it’s Hentai are just a further compartmentalization. You can pretend that you only are able to get off because it’s cartoons and not real rape, but that’s just a state of dissociation. You enjoy watching women get raped. You are aroused by rape, and by violence against women. Whether or not it’s cartoon or live action, you are getting off to the same thing.

  18. Sirf_palot said:

    I can see where you’re getting at at the above statement that by proxy, I’m still getting off to women getting humiliated and hurt. However, I did not say I pretend that the acts performed in 30% of the hentai I watch is not rape and/or similar fetish acts like tentacles, scat, bondage etc (nor am I denying that I seem to get off on rape), my point is I just don’t really see how this negatively affects me and other women. I am probably part of the minority of people who is into biastophilia and like you said, I seemed have developed enough “empathy” as to not actually perform these actions IRL (which I suppose would also apply to others). But for some reason you seem to think that hentai is not victim-less (and claims it is further compartmentalization), I mean no one is actually having sex, the seiyuus involved are paid well and many of them are the Mainstream VAs in anime, I could list several and go all fanboy on you guys but I don’t think you guys were really care about that stuff. And what else am I supposed to do to get my “sexual fix”? If I concede that live action porn abuses women, than isn’t it better that I put more effort into using a form that does not abuse real women?

    • Have you not heard of this wonderful thing called
      “Your imagination”?

      • A Shropshire Lad said:

        Lol, the bisexual in me is starting to fall in love with the young tormented fetishist Sirf_palot, so here is my being his defense attorney:

        Many people use past experiences as a masturbation aid. If our young friend doesn’t have any past actual sexual experience, that is one of handicap for him.

        You might say he should consider fantasizing about actual women, that he interacts or observes in daily life and would like to get to know better. Have you considered the possibility that our erotically challenged friend might be horrified and turned-off by the thought of objectifying actual flesh-and-blood women? Some sort of mix of Puritanism + misunderstood feminism + social awkwardness has made him think a woman must be wooed with respect before you can get down and dirty with her or the image of her.

        If he indeed viewed actual porn he would compartmentalize by doing it by proxy, I agree with that. But instead he views cartoons, in whose production nobody has been hurt.

        No doubt this unlimited consumation of all kinds of dehumanizing porn severely numbs and shapes his fantasies and actually reinforces how he can’t fantasize about the nice girl next door. Because the acts he would get off on with her involved, are so objectifying that he simply can’t make himself put her into them.

        So instead of following nature and masturbating about how she smiled at him and laughed, how she licked that ice cream, how that quick kiss felt, how fucking amazing it would be to dance real slow with her and smell her hair and the other usual boy-meets-girl stuff, he continues masturbating to some cartoon girl who doesn’t exist being raped in all holes by some alien.

        People who have had actual sexual experiences are probably to some degree immune against this, for obvious reasons. But the damage it can do to virgin souls and bodies is probably tragic.

        But where there is virginity, there must be hope 🙂

      • There is so much wrong with this “argument” I truly do not know where to begin.

        Many people use past experiences as a masturbation aid. If our young friend doesn’t have any past actual sexual experience, that is one of handicap for him.

        Many people are fucking sheepish and unable, and unwilling to think outside the box. I managed to mastrubate just fine without having sexual experiences, I’m sure the young rape-apologist-arsehole Sirf_palot is perfectly capable of (but he won’t, because he’d rather whack it to images of womyn and girls being raped and tortured.)

        You might say he should consider fantasizing about actual women, that he interacts or observes in daily life and would like to get to know better. Have you considered the possibility that our erotically challenged friend might be horrified and turned-off by the thought of objectifying actual flesh-and-blood women?

        Fantasy =\= always objectification and/or sexual in nature. I fantasise regularly about slaying massive hordes of zombies in a Walking Dead type scenario or fantasise about running through the wilderness somewhere. Maybe he could start by fantasising about non-sexual scenarios and using his imagination first in that context, it’s not that fucking difficult. It is also possible to create the image of a stranger, who you create a mind, body and soul for IN YOUR HEAD and flip off to that. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?!

        Some sort of mix of Puritanism + misunderstood feminism + social awkwardness has made him think a woman must be wooed with respect before you can get down and dirty with her or the image of her.

        So there’s something wrong with actually treating fellow HUMAN BEINGS with respect? Or remember that the person you’re fucking is also a HUMAN BEING with feelings with a RIGHT to respect? Also, don’t make the amateur mistake of conflating Puritanism ( a facet of conservatism) and Feminism. That shit pisses me off. The other thing is, you’re still thinking of womyn and girls in terms of a dichotomy, aka VIRGIN (the one whom you woo and respect) and WHORE (who you ‘get down and dirty’ with, seriously, why do you think that sex is dirty? that’s another HUGE question)

        But instead he views cartoons, in whose production nobody has been hurt.

        But still involve actual human beings pretending to be hurt for the sake of recording and future ‘enjoyment’ – same shit, different toilet.

        No doubt this unlimited consumation of all kinds of dehumanizing porn severely numbs and shapes his fantasies and actually reinforces how he can’t fantasize about the nice girl next door. Because the acts he would get off on with her involved, are so objectifying that he simply can’t make himself put her into them.

        See above, you are still virgin/whore-ing womyn and girls.

        So instead of following nature and masturbating about how she smiled at him and laughed, how she licked that ice cream, how that quick kiss felt, how fucking amazing it would be to dance real slow with her and smell her hair and the other usual boy-meets-girl stuff, he continues masturbating to some cartoon girl who doesn’t exist being raped in all holes by some alien.

        You’re still doing this whole virgin/whore thing, it’s fucking annoying, please desist for the benefit of half the fucking human race. Also, YOU’RE STILL JERKING TO IMAGES OF RAPE. Also, you are still seeing womyn and girls as a collection of holes (please do not ever refer to a womon’s organs as HOLES again, arsehole)

        People who have had actual sexual experiences are probably to some degree immune against this, for obvious reasons. But the damage it can do to virgin souls and bodies is probably tragic.

        But where there is virginity, there must be hope

        Virginity does not exist. VIRGINITY DOES NOT EXIST. Experience of Fucking =/= immunity to influence from media

      • A Shropshire Lad said:

        Fantasy =\= always objectification and/or sexual in nature. I fantasise regularly about slaying massive hordes of zombies in a Walking Dead type scenario or fantasise about running through the wilderness somewhere. Maybe he could start by fantasising about non-sexual scenarios and using his imagination first in that context, it’s not that fucking difficult. It is also possible to create the image of a stranger, who you create a mind, body and soul for IN YOUR HEAD and flip off to that. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?!

        Sounds a lot like the whole elaborate cartoon stuff.

      • Sirf_palot said:

        The whole virgin/whore thing was kinda reinforced (consciously/sub-consciously) by my Chinese upbringing though……(and probably, are large amount of other cultures somewhat reinforce this social construct). Its like how in ancient China and Japan there were “wives” (who were “supposed” to be dutiful, domestic etc. and water trade women who were the “intelligent”, “sexy” etc.)

        Also, Shropshire was not referring to a real woman, only a cartoon in the context of that cartoon, so what was wrong with using the word holes. Might I also restate that not all H-Materials is like that. Here is a good Kotaku article on the gems of the Eroge industry.

        Unlike real porn, there is distinct barrier between what is real and what is fake. Which is probably where we’ll continually disagree in this case.

        http://kotaku.com/#!5598491 (featured eroge is Kimi Ga Nozumu Eien, localized anime by Funimation as Rumbling Hearts)

        and heres an article by Leigh Alexander on a few H-Games,

        http://kotaku.com/#!5461619/romance-with-disabled-girls-how-and-maybe-why-an-unusual-video-game-came-to-be

        http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_108/1315-Heart-wrenching-Hentai

  19. What makes you so certain you wouldn’t rape a woman? Or that you haven’t? Many rapists were unaware that they had raped someone because they didn’t have to punch or hit her. The men I’ve interviewed who were frequent violent porn users were usually unable to understand that pressuring your partner into painful degrading acts to watch her be in pain was absolutely not OK. They thought it was normal. That is one thing that watching violent porn does, it normalizes sexual violence. It also furthers myths about what women want in bed, such as that all women secretly want to be raped or that no really means yes, etc…

    When you continuously watch horrific crimes, hate crimes against women, and associate this vicious violent acts with your orgasm, it means you will stop feeling like rape is even negative. Your brain makes the connection rape=good. Every time you masturbate to rape, that connection is strengthened. What happens when a friend comes to you and tells you she was raped at a party crying and you get turned on? The fact that you associate the pain and torture of another human being with your own pleasure makes you both a sociopath and a monster. If you weren’t a sociopath watching another person get tortured and raped would make you sick. The fact that it doesn’t means you lack empathy, in other words, a sociopath.

    I summarized the studies in this post Rape porn is never OK

    But basically when people watch rape porn they stop feeling empathy for rape victims, they stop believing women who have been raped, they believe rape myths like that all women secretly want to be raped, and they believe that degrading, often painful sex acts are normal.

    In order to stop rape from happening, men need to stop seeing it as sexy, or rough sex and realize it is a horrific violent crime that ruins women’s lives. So when there are hordes of men out there like you who associate rape with orgasms, the world becomes a haven for rapists. Some 25% of men have had “sex” in a way that is the legal definition of rape. Almost half of all men say they would rape a woman if they could get away with it. Among men who use violent porn, numbers went up to 65%.

  20. Sirf_palot said:

    How do I know that I haven’t raped a woman? Its because I haven’t touched a woman in any sexual manner or had any form of intercourse (other than with my hand) during the 19 years I have lived on this earth.

    I do feel empathy though, if I read news about horrific rapes I don’t get a boner ( and if I witnessed a real rape, I would be scared shit-less that the guy might eliminate witnesses that I wouldn’t even think about arousal). I feel like crap and I would want the rapist to be punished. I get pretty indignant (not sure if this is the right word) when criminals and rapists (obviously, I support the Death Penalty) get lenient sentences. For example, in the cases of Junko Furuta, Sylvia Likens or this most recent case (WARNING: Link NSFW, since its news from Japan) http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/02/01/rapist-gets-4-years-for-gang-raping-schoolgirl-into-suicide/. So I frankly disagree with your statement that I lack empathy for real life victims. Of course who knows, maybe this is just me trying to subconsciously compensate for my habit who knows.

    My point is, my habit has not eroded my ability to think rationally and empathize when I want to or need to (such as on jury etc.). Another related example, my love of massacreing fictitious civilivans in video games would not prevent me from wanting that Loughner guy from Tuscon from getting the needle. However, you’re right I wouldn’t know if my ideals are skewed. I mean admittedly I probably would still put acquaintance rape below violent stuff.

    Like heres my own personal sentencing guideline:

    Murder Special Circumstances (Death)
    Serial Rape (Life w/o parole or Death depending on jury)
    Gang Rape (25- Life)
    Rape (20-Life [if child or incest] Death)

    Acquaintance Rape (in cases where woman was drugged, inebriated, coerced, or blackmailed) 15-Life (with possibly of parole determined at sentencing)

    Acquaintance Rape (where both parties were drunk and there was a possibility that the male party was too drunk to know that the female party was too drunk to consent to sex) Minimum of 3 years to max of 12 depending on situation and financial restitution to be determined.
    *Note I got this from Law and Order SVU where Olivia went like, if the man was drunk and didn’t know the woman was too drunk to have sex, only the man should be punished (however I think there was an undertone in that episode that the woman had second thoughts about the ONS and used the drunk excuse to accuse the man: not that I’m condoning anything).

    Which is why I disagree with your blanket statement that this habit erodes my empathy and basically makes me condone rape.

    • And you don’t think that not having had any sexual activity, but looking at pornographic materials will have any influence on your future choices of sexual activity?

      Acquaintance Rape (where both parties were drunk and there was a possibility that the male party was too drunk to know that the female party was too drunk to consent to sex) Minimum of 3 years to max of 12 depending on situation and financial restitution to be determined.
      *Note I got this from Law and Order SVU where Olivia went like, if the man was drunk and didn’t know the woman was too drunk to have sex, only the man should be punished (however I think there was an undertone in that episode that the woman had second thoughts about the ONS and used the drunk excuse to accuse the man: not that I’m condoning anything).

      And you see nothing wrong with that statement? Most rapes are by “acquantinces” (mostly relatives, husbands or partners) and those are the most common.

      If SVU is your education on rape and sexual assault, you should really turn the TV off.

  21. Wow, your very own mansplainer! How quaint.

    What we should immediately think of course when a porndog such as this shows up self-reporting that he’s a “virgin” is that he views piv as “sex” and he probably harbors immense rage against women who have never let him stick his dick into them. Ie. All women. If he didn’t feel this way, he would have no reason to watch porn, because it wouldn’t do anything for him. In other words, he’s exactly like every other fucking man on earth, except he’s never ACTUALLY placed a woman in harms way, with his own penis. He just wishes he could, fantasizes about it constantly, and enjoys watching other men do to women what he can’t.

    I feel like vomiting.

    • Sirf_palot said:

      Well isn’t that better? I mean i’m might be masterbating to violence, but I am inherently motivated by a intimidation of women and the law to not commit actual violence towards them. Thus, I am no a danger to anybody. Isn’t that right? And the point about was, there was a lot of debate on imdb that Olivia Benson became a giant misandrist after that particular episode where they were dicussing about how if both parties were drunk, only the male was held responsible if he couldn’t tell the female was too drunk to legally consent. That was my point, I gave an example. Also, I don’t count relatives as Accquaintance rape, that should be counted as “rape-Rape” (I know, that sounds kinda fucked up but I was under the understanding that Accquaintance rape was women getting drugged/drunk by men ,getting raped). Hey I’m only 19, so cut me some slack, seriously (the oh noes, I’m gonna grow up to be a rage filled misogynist thing doesn’t really apply here. Because I know that I’ll never have sex or have a relationship in the future. And I think I came to terms with that in H.S.). Besides, any emotional aspect that I may be missing from life could easily be filled with story/d’aww romance heavy eroge such as Ef-Fairy Tale of the Two, Muv Luv, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien and Clannad. I mean there is litterally no danger of me actually raping someone. And besides, I don’t see how any man could be confused about what is rape and what is not rape, I mean if a person watches rape porn right, that means they explicitly get off on non-consent and therefore they would not easily confuse any signals (right?). Also, I haven’t watched any porn that made it seem like there were any blurry lines that could condone rape. For example, the woman never said no on screen while the man has intercourse with her. The only time that ever happens in in rape porn which is a completely different category than vanilla. Which makes the anti-porn position quite illogical in my mind. Hence my objection to the anti-porn crusade ( and the fact that I kinda have to wack off every day).

      • I was only 19 when I started feminist blogging so don’t use your age as an excuse.

        “For example, the woman never said no on screen while the man has intercourse with her.”

        You’re still presuming she said yes, and you can’t see how this is problematic?

      • P.S you don’t “have to” jerk it every day, in fact, it’s kinda better when you don’t.

        You won’t die if you don’t masturbate.

  22. Sirf_palot said:

    Besides, I have evolved during the end of my years in high school into a 2Dcomplex (2D-con, nijicon) kind of person (heheheh…3Dpigdisgusting lol for anyone here who has ever gone on 4chan, its the origin of the 3D pig disgusting meme, meaning that they think real women pale in comparison to their 2D Waifus, which are essentially idealized women), you know like those people on 4chan or that guy who got married to a character from the Dating-Sim, Love Plus.

  23. First off, being 19 has nothing to do with it. Many of us are in that age bracket.

    Second off, acquaintance rape is “rape-rape.” Just because one might be a bit more traumatic, being raped by a relative versus a friend or partner, does not lessen the severity of “acquaintance rape.” This is why many feminists get extremely angry at the classification of “acquaintance rape” like it’s somehow less severe than “actual” rape. It’s real rape. It’s a violent crime by someone you thought you could trust. It’s violent, it’s traumatic, it’s every bit as horrible as any other kind of rape. There is a movement to start calling it all rape, and call the stranger in the bushes kind of thing stranger rape. It’s because people like yourself feel something as innocent sounding as acquaintance rape isn’t that bad. It is. Getting drugged or drunk and getting raped is horrific. Can you imagine waking up, having no idea what happened, and realizing someone had sex with you while you were unconscious? That’s horrific and violent.

    And besides, I don’t see how any man could be confused about what is rape and what is not rape, I mean if a person watches rape porn right, that means they explicitly get off on non-consent and therefore they would not easily confuse any signals

    Rape is never about mixed signals. That is just a rape-apologist explanation to pretend rape isn’t a hate crime against women, when it clearly is. Lack of clear consent is rape. She doesn’t have to say no or fight, she has to say yes for it to be legal. Therefore “mixed signals” is just a straw man. There can be no confusion, either she clearly said YES or she didn’t. If he didn’t get that YES, then it was rape.

    Why do you hang on out Anti Porn Men and now here if you are so strongly against the message? It’s a bit strange even if you are just trolling. Most people would get bored after that many months.

    • A Shropshire Lad said:

      “Can you imagine waking up, having no idea what happened, and realizing someone had sex with you while you were unconscious?”

      If I didn’t loose my virginity or my sense of belonging 100 % to a monogamous partner, catch a STD or (if I was a woman) get pregnant, I can’t see how it would be that different from having my home burglared without the burglar actually taking anything.

      It would feel like suing a woman for throwing shrimp soup at me. Would feel quite odd, though, as she would have to be some kind of necrophiliac in order to get any pleasure out of my raping me when I was unconcious.

      • I can’t see how it would be that different from having my home burglared without the burglar actually taking anything.

        No, it is more like sleeping through a burglary and realizing everything you own was stolen and you were asleep through the whole thing and unable to do anything about it. Except that what was burgled was your body. It’s like waking up and realizing half of your body, mind, and spirit was stolen from you and you weren’t even able to try to stop it.

      • If I didn’t loose my virginity or my sense of belonging 100 % to a monogamous partner

        So you’re saying the ability to decide when and with whom to have sex is insignificant if you have more than one partner?

        I can’t see how it would be that different from having my home burglared without the burglar actually taking anything

        Rape is assault, not burglary. Penetrating a person who is unaroused and/or unresponsive can cause physical injury.

        It would feel like suing a woman for throwing shrimp soup at me

        It’s more like suing a woman for forcing soup down your throat without the slightest concern for chipping your teeth, slicing open your cheeks, bruising your throat and blocking your airway.

      • A Shropshire Lad said:

        @ Miranda:

        So you’re saying the ability to decide when and with whom to have sex is insignificant if you have more than one partner?

        Not insignificant, just less significant, when you are, as in this example, unconscious.

        Rape is assault, not burglary. Penetrating a person who is unaroused and/or unresponsive can cause physical injury.

        There you see, concrete phsyical damage is a good reason to press rape charges when somebody is raped when they are unconscious and the huge pshycical damage which you get at conscious rape is not evident.

        You might say it’s always a crime to assault an autonomous body, whether it’s conscious or not. But what if some fetishist just used a woman’s unconciousness to braid her hair without her consent or shaved my three-day stubble without my consent? Would that also be rape?

      • Not insignificant, just less significant, when you are, as in this example, unconscious.

        Why would you think that?

        There you see, concrete phsyical damage is a good reason to press rape charges when somebody is raped when they are unconscious and the huge pshycical damage which you get at conscious rape is not evident.

        Perhaps there is more to determining crime than physical or psychological damage to the victim, something like the perpetrator’s violation of others’ rights.

        You might say it’s always a crime to assault an autonomous body, whether it’s conscious or not.

        I might.

        But what if some fetishist just used a woman’s unconciousness to braid her hair without her consent or shaved my three-day stubble without my consent? Would that also be rape?

        I would say it falls under some definitions of rape.

      • A Shropshire Lad said:

        @ Miranda:

        Not insignificant, just less significant, when you are, as in this example, unconscious.

        Why would you think that?

        Because I’m a romantic.

        LOL, if we start splitting more hairs about braiding or shaving rapists, we will soon be copying “The Rape of the Lock” by Alexander Pope!!!!

        With the increasing rate of rape in society (seems like there is a case every second day in my local newspaper), I admit I’ve become rather fascinated by the philosophical-legal issues surrounding rape. I clearly see how the legal concept of rape is rooted in darkest patriarchy, i.e. it’s unquiestionably grave rape if another man impregnated / deflowered another man’s wife or daughter.

        But so are most our modern civil rights concepts, it has just been extended from the patriarchs to everybody, e.g. the right to vote.

        Rape is a really problematic crime, considering that there usually by definition are no witnesses. If there is no physical evidence, it will just be a war of words.

      • Oh how fucking sweet a man who is interested in the philosophical implications of male violence against womyn and girls. Your comment on the whole makes no fucking sense.

        Maybe you should be interested in stopping rape because it violates the basic human fucking rights of girls and womyn (who, just in case you didn’t know, which you clearly don’t, they are human also!)

  24. Sirf_palot said:

    Well, thats a new one, this is like the first time I’m accused of trolling (U MAD? jkjkjk). But in all seriousness, Elkballet, you mentioned in your earlier post that porn “It also furthers myths about what women want in bed, such as that all women secretly want to be raped or that no really means yes, etc… (aka. the guy got the wrong message, and I haven’t been able to find any porn where the porn star says no)” to which I responded with my anecdote saying that porn makes it pretty clear what is rape and what isn’t. Anyways, my presence on the other board is long story.

    It all started in the year 2009, when we in the VN/anime community suffered Rapelay gate. For those unfamiliar with the incident, some pillock decided to sell a pirated copy of this game online and obviously it was picked upby the media and moralfags across the UK and the US. The Japanese game industry came under a lot of fire from the group Equality Now and even some UN agency. As a result, Ero-game companies decided block foreign IPs to their sites and self-police itself better banning a large range of fetishes (although admitedly now that its been, it was really in name only). We all thought the whole incident died down when the media moved on but in Mid 2010, several ero-game makers sent out several C&D notices to several fan-translation projects overseas (presumably, to reduce exposure as they held a position of salutory neglect prior to Rapelay fiasco) which is now humorously called Minori-gate. As a result, a good amount the otaku community now sees feminists/anti-porn activists as meddling mother fuckers that could cripple their hobby. I was on youtube looking at response videos which was where I discovered anti-pornmen, which I spent about two minutes a day lurking while browsing other translation forums and tvtropes. I didn’t start posting until I realized there was no opposition on the site and it was basically a circle of netizens in an intellectual circle jerk , basically patting each other on the back or reaffirming each others stance against pornography. So I went, what the hell, I’ll be like the opposition in the comments section since I had nothing better to do. Which is true even now as the Muv Luv Alternative Translation has been delayed since the Fan-TL group and age are in talks to develop and official release (we are still slowly recovering from Rapelay-gate/Minori-gate) and the fact that the Winter 2011 anime season sucks balls as a result of the recent Tokyo Anti-Manga/Anime Ordinance (which again, we on the internet blame moralfags on).

    • For those unfamiliar with the incident, some pillock decided to sell a pirated copy of this game online and obviously it was picked upby the media and moralfags across the UK and the US.

      See again, here is the problem. It’s not that some “pillock” chose to distribute it, it’s the fact that some piece of shit decided that this was a
      a) marketable game to begin with
      b) that playing a game about rape would be “cool” or “fun”
      c) the game even got made, let alone thought of.

      If the media didn’t pick up on this is a fucking huge red flag, I’d say that would be even more morally bankrupt. We’re radical feminists. Of course we’re fucking aware of pieces of fucking shit games like this. Do you think that we are stupid and/or live underneath rocks or something?

      self-police itself better banning a large range of fetishes

      Rape is not fetish. Rape is not fetish. RAPE IS NOT A FUCKING FETISH.

      And I think you are a troll, and someone who does not give a fuck about womyn and girls, apart from whatever sexual satisfaction they can give you.

      • Sirf_palot said:

        First of all two points,

        a) The game was marketable because there is a minority of a couple of thousand (at most 10 thousand) of players in Japan that like this kinda of stuff (The way they release it they release a limited number of copies as to avoid high expenses).

        b. It did not make rape cool or fun. Besides, the only endings the game has is when one of the victims stabs you mid-coitus or pushes you in front of a speeding metro, so I think there is a strong anti-rape message hidden underneath.

        c. The game was a shitty anyway and once the hype was over, it has all been forgotten.

        d. I did not say rape was a fetish, though I should have made myself clearer. What I meant to say is that as a result of the OUTRAGE, the EOCS basically said, alright, lets ban all of these other content as to avoid exposure.

        Content as illogical as neko-mimi characters(you know, anthropomorphic moe characters) and pregnant sex was included in the wake of the incident ( Because obviously, Catgirls are evil).

      • That’s a minority that still fantasies about and is beginning to act out raping girls and womyn.

        Sorry, but making an interactive video game is making something cool and fun. You know what else? I’ve actually seen RapePlay in action and you know what, it makes raping girls and womyn out to being COOL AND FUN. There is no “anti-rape” message in a rape victim/survivor stabbing her perpetrator to survive. There is no ‘anti-rape’ message in pushing a rapist in front of a train.

        It doesn’t matter how good or shit a game is, it has to be marketable to be made, ergo, there is a market for games that are based around the sexualised torture and rape of girls and womyn.

      • How did I know that it wouldn’t get a reply?

      • Sirf_palot said:

        You Madam have insulted my honor by implying that I would be too cowardly to reply to your comment (Sarcasm mode off).

        The thing is, you’re outraged that there is a minority of people that admittedly, have some very reprehensible tastes and that people will market to such tastes. (I’ll use White supremacists/racists as an example since some feminists have likened rape to a hate crime). There are definitely many games made about killing blacks and Jews in concentration camps, reprehensible yes, illegal no. The same policy should apply to rape games. As long as any of us are not raping people, what we do should not be criminalized, (which is what CEDAW and EN wanted Japan to do). My point was, is that since “we” are not hurting anyone by “playing” this game or thinking these thoughts. And as much as I hate to bring this up, but wouldn’t that be akin to “thought-crime” (???, I mean its punishing people for what goes on in their mind, not their actions).

        Although I must admit, it would be much better for the industry to get rid of these elements as it would let the gems truly shine and definitely reduce the negative attention and perception.

  25. The thing about women’s “consent” in porn is that its assumed to exist. Just like in real life. The men watching it sure as hell don’t know if its consensual, nor are they in any position to ever know for sure. Yet, they watch it anyway. As for the male performers, there’s really no way for them to know either is there? Whether its WANTED that is. Although its interesting isn’t it that whether its WANTED actually has little to nothing to do with whether its consensual, in most men’s minds anyway. And no, a signed contract does NOT equal consent, even removing the issue of whether its WANTED from the equation entirely, words on a page don’t equal consent, ever. Was it ever expressly communicated to him? And if so, were the attendant circumstances such that it was 100% (or even reasonably) clear to him that it was uncoerced?

    If not, then at the very least, he is sticking his dick into women when he doesn’t know if its consensual or not, and he doesn’t care. Which makes him a danger to the community. Another possibility is that he’s a flat out fucking rapist.

  26. If I thought you were trolling I would stop accepting your comments (P.S. I love the troll website, u jelly?). I more meant I’m wondering what you see in these blogs/what you hope to accomplish. You’re clearly not going to convince us, we’re clearly not going to convince you, we just go around in circles.

    • I guess my original intention on posting on all of these sites was to make people understand that their outrage affected a industry that doesn’t really affect women’s rights. I’m worried that all of this external outrage would give moralists/conservatives in Japan to further crack down on the anime/manga/VN medium or put developers into another hissy fit and turtle themselves again. Although, I must admit, I did not really do a great job of it.

      Frankly, I don’t really care that much for the western pornographic industry (I pirate all my western porn). So you guys can shut it down for all I care. But if I loose my Eroge and all its escapist goodness of H.S Rom-Com, I can’t see myself staying sane (well that’s an exaggeration, I have video games and probably when I hit my 30s alcohol, maid cafes and hostess clubs). Well anyways, I refrain myself from inflammatory statements but you must understand the feelings of us weaboos/otakus as we see our hobby as extremely harmless, as they are only cartoons, and we are probably some of the most socially awkward ppl in the world (not to mention most of us aren’t in shape, for ex. I’m lean, but have no muscles at all) so I don’t think most of us would commit rape just because some of the materials we read has rape in it. Like you said, people are still raised enough/conditioned to have enough empathy to no rape or break the law, so you wouldn’t expect us to commit such crimes despite what gives gets us hard. So you must understand why we believed that we received undue criticism from the Equality Now and other feminist groups.

      • “I guess my original intention on posting on all of these sites was to make people understand that their outrage affected a industry that doesn’t really affect women’s rights.”

        Seriously?

        Fucking seriously?

  27. The thing about women’s “consent” in porn is that its assumed to exist. Just like in real life.

    Yes. Also, as I know you’ve blogged about, telling someone with no money you will pay them for sex on camera is coercion and is legally rape.

    • A Shropshire Lad said:

      This only makes sense to me if you are a Communist and believes that offering some poor broke person next to nothing for cleaning your toilet is as bad as paying them the same to film them licking ass.

  28. A Shrophire Lad… lad what ever the fuck your name is… It’s been great being able to watch your opinions “evolve” only to expose how you really think. Fundamentally,there is no chance of any kind of intellectual break through until you decide that you WANT to understand women. Obviously having an Asian back ground you’ve been a victim of, thought subtle to you but obvious to any “woman” with a brain in function, that your toxic perception of “woman” is a vicious cycle and to put it simply for you, you do not yet have the brain capacity to explore the sophisticated ideology behind your comments. Sorry mate. Maybe give it up and try again later. Everything these people are trying to teach you is not getting through!

    Good luck in finding a girlfriend though. Xox

    DiOn.

  29. I have bucket loads of respect for the women I fap to. Sexualization and respect are not mutually exclusive. That’s a myth. A myth you’re perpetuating by right now, actually. That producers of our sexual release aren’t “real.” Ever seen the documentary “The Naked Feminist”?

    You have different feelings for different people. Are you saying you don’t? Any guy who you contextualize as sexist will face a lifetime worth of unfair treatment on the basis of gender.

    Does that make you a sociopath? Maybe. I think we all have some sociopathic tendencies in the right circumstance.

  30. oldhomehaibane said:

    I’m in much the same situation as Sirf_Palot, only I think I’m somewhat less fucked up than he is at this point. Some information on myself: I’m 24 years old, diagnosed aspie, never been in a relationship, introverted and neurotic, spent my latter years of high school and early college completely immersed in 4chan culture, and since a young age (12-13) I have been a heavy user (at least an hour or more a day just about every day) of pornography, the content of which has become significantly more disturbing and violent since my exposure to 4chan.

    As far as the hentai I have used goes, it is not the absolute worst that is out there yet I am in a position to know with certitude what the worst is and the material that I have frequently masturbated to these past few years is only one step removed from the very worst.

    I don’t remember how it started, but at some point within the past year or so I began to read feminist blogs and this changed my perspective on a lot of things. It made me aware of a lot of things that before I didn’t even know were issues and I especially paid a lot of attention to feminist analyses of geek culture. I started to speak out when friends on Facebook did things like slut-shaming, fat-shaming, or reveal rapey attitudes, even though this has caused me to be ridiculed and made me even more alienated than I used to be. I saw Jackson Katz when he gave a lecture at my university and the stuff he said about sexism being a men’s issue really had an effect on me. I even declared a double minor in Women’s Studies and Sexuality Studies that same semester but then I felt like if I went through with it and took several 300 and 400-level Women’s Studies courses the next semester (I’m a senior now and 300/400-level courses are all I’ll be taking) my unresolved issues with pornography (and poor time/stress management) would lead to a complete nervous breakdown and possible suicide. I was additionally terrified that I would not be able to really grasp the shape and extent of my male privilege and that even if I didn’t have a breakdown I’d end up some dude with a degree in Women’s Studies but who still says or secretly thinks fucked up awful shit which would do more damage than good. So I skipped this semester and have spent the past few months doing not much else but playing video games, though I am still reading the aforementioned feminist blogs.

    All of this feminist stuff got me to questioning the problem of consent in live-action pornography and how this is complicated by capitalism, which ended with me making the decision to delete all of it even though the live-action stuff I had was nowhere near as bad as my hentai, being entirely nudes and relatively normal sex. I continued masturbating to horrifically misogynistic and violent hentai, however. Unlike Sirf_Palot, the hentai I used has entirely been in manga form and so real women were not involved in any way in its production.

    Brief exposures to radical feminist blogs, an experience which I can only compare to that of one of H.P. Lovecraft’s hapless protagonists who reads the Necronomicon and has his mind completely shattered by the realization that there are dark and incomprehensibly vast forces at work in the world (only instead of Cthulhu it’s Patriarchy and the stars have been right for pretty much forever also as a dude I’m a part of it so it’s also like in Shadow Over Innsmouth where the dude realizes that he is a fish-person), made me very much repulsed by all pornography, even hentai. Several times I have deleted my entire collection, only to start building it back up again within a matter of days.

    So over the past year I have vacillated between accepting my fantasies (telling myself that it’s not hurting anyone and that I’d never do the things I fantasize about so there’s no problem) and reviling myself for them. Some things I have read on feminist blogs have stuck with me though and it ended up making the acceptance of my habits more and more difficult. For example, I would be browsing one of the blogs that I get my hentai from when one of the translators or commenters would make a rape joke or say something else really fucked up, and I would get to thinking, “Is this something he thinks naturally or is it the pornography that is making them like this?” Also the hentai itself got to bother me more and more. With stuff that had at least some indication that the artist was aware of how fucked up the stuff he drew was, I could tell myself the same line about it just being a harmless fantasy, but more and more I became conscious of things that made me think that maybe the artist actually thinks what he’s portraying is normal or at least not unethical. Like even in the stuff that would be categorized on these blogs as “happy sex” there would be parts where the girl would say “no” but the guy wouldn’t listen and then later she would be shown enjoying herself anyways and at the end she would act like everything was fine even though the guy had raped her. Also sometimes the artist would have a foreward or afterword where they would address the reader in an intimate manner and in these they would say some really fucked up stuff like one who said that “sometimes love can grow out of rape.” Before with a little bit of compartmentalizing I could just brush this sort of thing off with only a moderate amount of cognitive dissonance but post-exposure to feminism coming across this sort of thing often resulted in gigantic freakouts and made me feel incredibly disgusted and angry.

    In addition to the concerns that I have been having about the effects of all kinds of pornography on women, I feel that my use of this stuff has profoundly fucked up my self-esteem and prospects of happiness. Over the course of my life I have had a little over ten different women who have told me they loved me or asked me out. I felt the same way about some of them but I rejected all of them because I could not shake off the thought that if any of these women knew of the horrible things that I have fantasized about (despite none of these fantasies ever involving them or any other real woman), they could not possibly continue to love me. When I told a friend (also immersed in chan culture) about this he suggested that I just keep my thoughts a secret from any woman I go out with. I told him this wouldn’t work because I would feel like I was deceiving her and that she wouldn’t really be loving me but just “the doll of me that exists in her brain” (as Proust might have put it). My friend did not have any response to this so the issue remained unresolved. I figure that even if I fix my shit the stigma of ever having had the fantasies I’ve had will still prevent me from ever entering a relationship, so that damage at least is probably permanent. I’m prepared to just accept that.

    I have noticed that every time I delete my collection it gets easier to do so in the future. Whereas previously there would be much agonizing and rationalization, now it seems like I can just coolly delete it all after reading a particularly incisive article or coming across something really disturbing on one of the aforementioned hentai blogs. There have also been marginal increases in the amount of time that elapses before I begin building my collection up again. Last time I almost got through a whole week.

    After doing a google search for “rape fantasies” “sex-positive feminism” looking for my periodic dose of assurance that I’m not a completely horrible person for having fucked up awful fantasies, I came across this site and reading several of the articles I decided yet again to delete all of my hentai.

    I would appreciate any and all advice that people here may have for how I may stick with this in the long-run. I have identified some issues that seem to make things difficult for me and would like strategies for how to deal with them.

    1) When I masturbate, fucked up awful shit (often images or scenarios from hentai) keep popping into my head and I don’t know how to deal with this. Sometimes I can have happy fantasies about consensual sex that Dworkin herself probably wouldn’t give a shit about (I hope), but more often these fantasies will be interrupted by more fucked up stuff which nearly always seems much more compelling to me.

    2) It is incredibly easy for me to find reinforcements for my old habits from people on the Internet, friends in real life, pop culture, etc. All it takes is a relatively sophisticated post by a sex-positive feminist somewhere on the Internet for me to be strongly tempted to feel that there’s nothing wrong with me after all. I have noticed, though, that the arguments have to be more and more sophisticated as a lot of it is just so weak that no amount of desperate rationalization can make me swallow it anymore, also some sex-positive feminists that I used to admire have severely lost credibility with me after I noticed some seriously problematic shit they’ve done, like when Clarisse Thorn got that Hugo Schwyzer guy on Feministe. It is still an issue, though.

    3) The “come on, I personally am not hurting any real person, they’re just drawings” argument remains a powerful one to me. It is always there to tempt me back into a libertarian view of pornography in my weakest moments. In its most recent form this argument has even added a concession to radfem arguments about the context in which such fantasies occur: “Okay, so I’m a misogynist. So what? I am not a misogynist in a way that is hurting any real woman so it is not a problem.”

    So any advice for dealing with these hurdles would again be appreciated, also anything else that anyone has to say about me I’ll listen to with an open mind. I have a vague idea of what people are going to tell me and it’s probably going to hurt a lot but I feel that I have to hear it anyways.

    This is the second time that I have reached out and told feminists on the Internet about this stuff. The first time I told a sex-positive feminist on OkCupid about my anxieties around my fantasies. She told me to see a therapist but she thought that the therapy should be aimed towards making my accept my fantasies. She even felt that she had to assure me that no therapist would try to get me to stop having such fantasies. This is the first time I have told radical feminists about this sort of thing.

    Sorry for such a long post. I have a hard time being concise. It is probably due to my Aspergers. Subsequent posts by me in this topic, should they occur, will probably be less lengthy though still quite unnecessarily long as is my unfortunate tendency. Again, I apologize for this.

      • oldhomehaibane said:

        No, I hadn’t. Thank you. I’ve been watching some of the videos on there and reading some of the advice and it’s been helpful. I had no idea there was something like this out there with a secular approach.

        I’m reading Andrea Dworkin’s Pornography: Men Possessing Women. Despite everything I’d always heard about Dworkin my first impression is that she’s a very formidable intellect. I’ve finished the first chapter and found much that makes sense to me.

  31. oldhomehaibane said:

    Um okay this is totally unrelated but I’m checking out the blogs of a lot of the people who like the posts on this blog and I’m noticing a lot of blatant transphobia. Is radical feminism necessarily transphobic? If it is then there’s no way I can endorse this ideology regardless of whatever points I may agree with it on. There’s no way I could ever reject the identity of the trans friend I made in college or that of any other transperson. That would be so wrong.

    • I don’t post about this topic because I do not want to spark a debate, sorry. All I’ll say is that I believe that everyone is entitled to the same rights and that trans people should be protected from discrimination and violence, just the same as I believe everyone else should be.

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